Curse

WarcryOfTruth · Feb 26, 2011, 03:19 AM // 03:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

Its definitely better lately though. There's only about 5 PvE skills that absolutely have to be on certain profession's bars.

If you want to be technical, there is NO skill that is actually required to be on any bar to complete anything, with the exception of a Teleport skill to complete Urgoz's Warren.

Xenomortis · Feb 26, 2011, 03:22 AM // 03:22

Pretty sure you need a heal (Orison) to complete "A Monk's Mission".

Essence Snow · Feb 26, 2011, 03:24 AM // 03:24

For the most part I just find the skill annoying...hence y i'll nvr use it. I could care less what it does....having to re-rez allies every 30-60 secs or bring another rez...2rez's(really?) is plain out, down right annoying.

Wenspire · Feb 26, 2011, 05:09 AM // 05:09

Not sure why no one likes this skill. I find it to be quite powerful when used correctly (NOT when the 1st person in your party dies off). Insta AoE rez at full health/en that cannot be stripped (like Vengeance) with 33% extra damage and no extra DP after dying again. Sure, cooldown is long but if people are dying off faster than this thing can recharge there is something wrong with your party setup.

I also find this better than running UA for groups that have more than one death per battle. But that's a whole 'nuther issue in itself...

Just my $0.02...

Kelfer · Feb 26, 2011, 12:16 PM // 12:16

Quote "PVE skills were I suspect created partly to test out new skills ideas for GW2 but mainly to get people to begin playing together again.
Sadly they came a little late in the day."

Agree w. 1st sentecnce They were almost certainly fore-runners for GW2
Disagree w. 2nd. They helped a lot in VQ of areas where foes had OP heal or damage. And that's seems to be what they are really meant for.
Classic example were the areas where you have to 4 man VQ, made that a whole lot easier. ((Won't go into cons here, that another thing)

Anyways Minion: heroes shud be carrying res, not you! It also seems like you have Rubbish healer. Spec better heal builds on heroes and it helps lots and lots.
BTW tip: Slavers & DoA are meant to be PuG's, but at a stretch you can H/H

HigherMinion · Feb 26, 2011, 01:09 PM // 13:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelfer

Anyways Minion: heroes shud be carrying res, not you! It also seems like you have Rubbish healer. Spec better heal builds on heroes and it helps lots and lots.
BTW tip: Slavers & DoA are meant to be PuG's, but at a stretch you can H/H

I'm not talking about my own team personally, but this PvE skill and in a way, PvE skills in general. BuH is NOT overpowered. +33% damage is nothing in comparison to Asuran Scan's old description. Now that is changed, everyone finds BuH OP? It's one of the only options to realistically buff elementalists in your team without having to sacrifice a skill slot on THEIR bar (as they do with GoEP, Intensity, ELord, etc...)

I really don't know what they were trying to nerf with this one, removing buh and adding a new intensity which is worse than the old one.

BuH is not OP. It breaks no mechanics or rules, as such. Asuran Scan removes Death Penalty... ??? No competition; it also doesn't kill you mid-walk to next mob.

gremlin · Feb 26, 2011, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

PvE only skills and consumables were created because Anet refused to split skills in PvE/PvP only and any skills that were decent vs the stupidly "big status moronic AI" giant mobs introduced in the game since factions would most likely be overpowered for PvP.

Since regular skills became stronger with the few last major updates (and now Anet splits skills for PvE/PvP), I think it is a good idea to reduce the power of some PvE only skills (or just remove them, but that wont happen).

If you look, Asuran scan, BuH and AoHM were skills that increased damage output by huge amounts - all got reworked.

I would even say that heroes should be given PvE-only skills alongside the 7 heroes update, but Xenomortis already told me he would attack me brutally (because the game would be too easy for him and his heroes) and so would all the "status quo" SC mobs/guilds that would lose their dominance over end chest of elite areas to players with 7 heroes - not very good for the ego.

Good points I have to say your analysis is probably correct.

Wouldn't mind pve skills being allowed on heroes after all no one is forced to use them.
To those who object to things because they make the game too easy I say then don't use them.

Kunder · Feb 26, 2011, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

I'm not talking about my own team personally, but this PvE skill and in a way, PvE skills in general. BuH is NOT overpowered. +33% damage is nothing in comparison to Asuran Scan's old description. Now that is changed, everyone finds BuH OP? It's one of the only options to realistically buff elementalists in your team without having to sacrifice a skill slot on THEIR bar (as they do with GoEP, Intensity, ELord, etc...)

Asuran Scan: +75% damage, attacks only, 1 player, requires a lot of energy to spam on every target, removable.
BUH: +33% damage, effects all players, needs a minimum of 2 people to use. Free recharge of energy/health every 30s, or quicker with more BUHs and deaths.

So yeah, its about as powerful as AS in damage/slots used if you are using it properly. Also, AS was nerfed for a reason. Its was overpowered.While BUH is now less powerful for solo AP nukers (the ONLY ones who could use it before due to the recharge I might add, gotta love PvE skills that only work with a single build), those builds were either powerful enough without BUH (MoP AP), or sucked anyway and need a buff to their class as a whole (any AP ele build).

Reformed · Feb 26, 2011, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

While BUH is now less powerful for solo AP nukers (the ONLY ones who could use it before due to the recharge I might add, gotta love PvE skills that only work with a single build), those builds were either powerful enough without BUH (MoP AP), or sucked anyway and need a buff to their class as a whole (any AP ele build).

1. Put BUH on all your melee
2. Ask the SoS to go draw aggro and summon their spirits to the front
3. Wait for the spirits to take some damage and hit BUH on the way up
4. Maintainable 25% damage boost

/unsigned for change, don't really care about this skill. New BUH is garbage and the old BUH was the first thing I'd drop as an optional.

Taurean · Feb 26, 2011, 10:11 PM // 22:11

Bah, slap on quickening zephyr and it's all set

Kunder · Feb 27, 2011, 01:08 AM // 01:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reformed

1. Put BUH on all your melee
2. Ask the SoS to go draw aggro and summon their spirits to the front
3. Wait for the spirits to take some damage and hit BUH on the way up
4. Maintainable 25% damage boost

/unsigned for change, don't really care about this skill. New BUH is garbage and the old BUH was the first thing I'd drop as an optional.

1. Sit around while SoS spirits die.
2. ???
3. Profit.

Because essentially wasting an entire character + lots of time being silly totally doesn't hurt you more than 25% damage helps. If you are going to play around with that then what stops you from this:

1. Put BUH on two backliners.
2. Die once.
3. Maintainable 33% damage boost.

Xenomortis · Feb 27, 2011, 01:12 AM // 01:12

If you're working with melee then the death more or less stops good use of Strength of Honor which is superior to the 33% damage boost.

HigherMinion · Feb 27, 2011, 01:35 AM // 01:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

If you're working with melee then the death more or less stops good use of Strength of Honor which is superior to the 33% damage boost.

It should atleast be maintainable. Once someone has BuH on them, if anyone else uses BuH to resurrect more players, it should lengthen their life.

At the moment, if multiple people die at different times, your res is in a state and can only res one at a time, effectively. Thus making Vengeance superior.

You could cast shadowform before it finished and not have the health-loss; why shouldn't you be able to avoid the death penalty with this PvE skill?

Kaida the Heartless · Feb 27, 2011, 01:45 AM // 01:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

Most of my old bars included BuH because there was nothing better. this is still the case for a MoP as things aren't alive long enough to see use of Trypt Signet.

What and WHAT?! BuH because you can't find anything good to use... and you are using Tryp sig?! OMG I'M GONNA DIE. THIS IS IT.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Minion, stop being stupid.

OHH. THANK YOU. Phew. Close one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

You could cast shadowform before it finished and not have the health-loss; why shouldn't you be able to avoid the death penalty with this PvE skill?

Because SF is an enchantment, and you lost the health when it ended. TBH, I think you still lost the health anyways through a bug, but I don't remember exactly.

Reformed · Feb 27, 2011, 01:58 AM // 01:58

@Kunder: We routinely ran 3-4 frontliners so if the spirits can't fuel BUH your pals up front can. Nobody was ever "wasting" themselves it just wasn't my first pick as an optional and I already said as much. This was a much smoother and faster process than it sounds to you, clearly. 2-3 hits from HM melee with their built in IAS takes seconds to get a spirit or two to 50% and that's all you needed for a near overlap under Essence.

Xeno's comment answers your second question. Rebond every 30s? No thanks.

HigherMinion · Feb 27, 2011, 02:02 AM // 02:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

What and WHAT?! BuH because you can't find anything good to use... and you are using Tryp sig?! OMG I'M GONNA DIE. THIS IS IT.

Tryptophan Signet is one of the best synergy PvE skills to use for a MoP. It keeps things snared enough to rip the mob up with MoP before they kite. Why so omg die this'r it?

Quote:

Because SF is an enchantment, and you lost the health when it ended. TBH, I think you still lost the health anyways through a bug, but I don't remember exactly.

It didn't, there was no bug. Enchant or shout, it shouldn't be applicable to just one.

Kunder · Feb 27, 2011, 02:54 AM // 02:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reformed

@Kunder: We routinely ran 3-4 frontliners so if the spirits can't fuel BUH your pals up front can. Nobody was ever "wasting" themselves it just wasn't my first pick as an optional and I already said as much. This was a much smoother and faster process than it sounds to you, clearly. 2-3 hits from HM melee with their built in IAS takes seconds to get a spirit or two to 50% and that's all you needed for a near overlap under Essence.

Xeno's comment answers your second question. Rebond every 30s? No thanks.

If you are letting the spirits die on a spirit character you are wasting half of the point of bringing that character.

Yes, SoH doesn't work well with BUH. Does every single buff in the game need to be stackable on the same character at once? It works just fine with literally everything else you could buff someone with.

Kaida the Heartless · Feb 27, 2011, 03:20 AM // 03:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

Tryptophan Signet is one of the best synergy PvE skills to use for a MoP. It keeps things snared enough to rip the mob up with MoP before they kite. Why so omg die this'r it?

It didn't, there was no bug. Enchant or shout, it shouldn't be applicable to just one.

1) Because "Finish Him!", "You Move Like A Dwarf!", Pain Inverter, Ebon Vanguard Assassin, Ebon Battle Standard of Honor, Ebon Battle Standard of Wisdom, and Technobabble exist. Also, I thought you still had to touch 'em with the skill, but even so, the above are still probably better.

2)Why shouldn't it be applicable to just one? Enchants have the disadvantage of being strippable, therefore, they should be better.

Reformed · Feb 27, 2011, 03:34 AM // 03:34

@Kunder

This is pretty far off topic.

You wrote that only AP callers could maintain old BUH "due to the recharge" I know this is wrong and explained why which lead to this weird subject change. Though I did not like the skill when it was used correctly on a melee character it was easy to maintain. I guess we just have to agree to disagree?

By the way the new BUH handicap doesn't just apply to offensive bonding, it applies to defensive as well which is often more important...use your imagination here.

Xenomortis · Feb 27, 2011, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

If you are letting the spirits die on a spirit character you are wasting half of the point of bringing that character.

They don't have to die; they merely have to take a few hits. Summon Spirits is brought for a reason.
And half the point of that character is for the spirits to get hit.